Curse

Mineria · Oct 31, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper.nl

IMO Guild Wars only needs one thing to improve it's graphics, which is texture resolution. This is not really a problem limited to Guild Wars but in many games; there is a nice rendering engine, nice shaders but the main textures just are not detailed enough. This especially is visible on other player characters where the texture detail seems to be crippled to gain some performace.

So, my wish would be to see as high texture resolutions as possible. Up to 4096x4096 for the largest tiles. Texture compression technologies like S3TC/DXTC should handle it nicely. Of course, there also should be an option to reduce texture detail for players with older hardware or on-board graphics which may have trouble handling that much detail.

I think that the GW2 engine will handle larger textures, hence the DX10 support. Hopefully DX10.1 will arrive in time to make it work fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper.nl

And no, I don't want any anime-style graphics. Let's not make GW like Final Fantasy and keep the graphics realistic.

I don't get it. Where and how are the graphics more realistic?
Charr? Asura? Monsters? Obsidian sets? Necromancers?
I could make an endless list.
Since when has GW been game trying to look like the real world?
It is not realism, its a different style of art.
If you want something that looks real, try a flightsim.

Diablo™ · Oct 31, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

I meant with that, that its not true, that I dislike GW, only because i compare it with L2, thats something i could hear out of his comment and that I should go play L2, when i don't like GW...

Ok, nevermind.

Diablo™ · Oct 31, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

I don't get it. Where and how are the graphics more realistic?
Charr? Asura? Monsters? Obsidian sets? Necromancers?
I could make an endless list.
Since when has GW been game trying to look like the real world?
It is not realism, its a different style of art.
If you want something that looks real, try a flightsim.

I think he means realistic style, not just realistic context. It's not comparing Fantasy with reality. It's comparing cartoons with films, like Bugs Bunny vs Lord of the Rings. They're both fictional, but at least one of them is percievable.

Fitz Rinley · Oct 31, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

First, the OP is obviously translating their thoughts into English. So to be concerned with demonic vs. godly may not indicate a lack of knowledge about the game as expressed in their langauge.

I have always assumed the GW skins and graphics function the way they do in order to ease game play. People who can't move can't play. Graphics problems occur enough as it is. (I have a DuoCore processor and still can't go certain places such as the Fort where Avatar of Melandru is - the rain their shuts down my nVidia 7900 card completely .)

There are great area graphics, to that I agree. But as to the weapons and armor, to that I do not agree. The range of options for most armors appears to be completely controled by the dance movements of each class in question. Some of those armors are poorly implemented (with horrid clipping, such as the Sunspear Mes elite) and GW does not care. Since we are constantly told all skins as mere vanity it is sometimes a wonder we do not just play the game naked with clubs as the only weapon.

What is the most depressing about GW is the complete lack of continuity in design between weapons, armor, and cultures. With the exception of the focus (which looks like a mages version of a nuclear test kit) the incredibly advanced Asura items look more primitive and stone-age than the Norn. The weapons of the Ebon Vanguard do not reflect their Ascolonian heritage, nor do the armors hardly. Collector and constructed weapons among the Kurzick and Luxon ought to be amber and jade to reflect those peoples who use it for everything - instead they are standard stock, while the Outcasts/Wardens drop jade/amber weapons? My Rit has Kurzick armor, if amber was used in making it - I certainly cannot tell where. (Not that I want to see all 7,000 yards of cloth that went into making some of the armors anyway,

)

But yes, we can only hope that some logical framework will exist in GW2. But alas, it only took 2 years for them to figure out what a bow sort of looks like - almost everything else they have made would have broke in field testing or shot the user. (The short bow is workable.)

I also am pretty irritated that the weapons we like and have developed have no value. Instead we are supposed to fill our storage with useless chunks of lava that do not fit with or go with our character appearance, background, or entertain a lot of us. Further, if there is something one would like it is kept rare or exclusive so that you can't get it unless you ebay for gold and buy it from one of the 10 people that ever see something you would use. What you can almost guarantee is that damn few players have drop what they would use or can get skins they find entertaining unless they want to be professional farmers for life.

Bryant Again · Oct 31, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Well...id say RO2 has some of the best animations for me...their lifenoise is AMAZING. Things like your character looking at her nails...or scratching. Very subtle things. Blinking, smiling, etc.The emotes are great (KISS EMOTE FTW!!) and its generally very full of character.

GW by comparison has very stiff and stoic faces.

At least they blink. Hellgate:London's characters have NO facial animations whatsoever. Irks the shit out of me. Of course, this could've changed since I just had the demo, but I doubt it.

Mineria · Oct 31, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

I think he means realistic style, not just realistic context. It's not comparing Fantasy with reality. It's comparing cartoons with films, like Bugs Bunny vs Lord of the Rings. They're both fictional, but at least one of them is percievable.

Still GW armors and weapons do not look more realistic.
If so what, how and compared with?

L2 as example, has some weapons and armors looking more real world to.
Even more real then in GW.
You could compare the Samurai Swords found in both games.
And a lot of other items.
At the higher end L2 has a much more less real item look, but so does GW.
Then again, look at Dungeon & Dragons Online armors and weapons.
Total different style, but much more real world alike looking armors and weapons, not so much fantasy mixed in.
Which is bit of a shame, cause I like shiny and more fantasy influenced artwork on them.

We talked a bit about helms on my warrior one day.
Conclusion was if it was a real world warrior, the helm would never have so many fancy stuff sticking out.
we compared it with that some people think Vikings had horns on their helmets.
Which they didn't, only Kings or high positioned people had such ornaments.
But it still looks cooler to have ornaments then none in the game.
Don't you think?

Diablo™ · Oct 31, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

Still GW armors and weapons do not look more realistic.
If so what, how and compared with?

L2 as example, has some weapons and armors looking more real world to.
Even more real then in GW.
You could compare the Samurai Swords found in both games.
And a lot of other items.
At the higher end L2 has a much more less real item look, but so does GW.
Then again, look at Dungeon & Dragons Online armors and weapons.
Total different style, but much more real world alike looking armors and weapons, not so much fantasy mixed in.
Which is bit of a shame, cause I like shiny and more fantasy influenced artwork on them.

We talked a bit about helms on my warrior one day.
Conclusion was if it was a real world warrior, the helm would never have so many fancy stuff sticking out.
we compared it with that some people think Vikings had horns on their helmets.
Which they didn't, only Kings or high positioned people had such ornaments.
But it still looks cooler to have ornaments then none in the game.
Don't you think?

All low end weapons in all games are pretty much similar, the same short sword is in WoW, L2 and GW. But once you get into the higher tier stuff, they are distinctly different. I don't argue that L2 have more ornaments on their armor, but its just a matter of taste in design and what people like. I wouldn't say GW have no ornate designs, just not as much compared to L2, partially because of their texture resolutions does not permit such details, but mostly it's just a particular style. Looking at the concept art for Lineage 2, and Guild Wars, they're both just as well done, but its comparing the style of one particular artist against another, it only boils down to taste. Monet isn't necessarily better than Van Gogh, they're just different artist.

But personally I dont think it's the ornaments that's making them unrealistic, its the same stupid glowy effects that they use in WoW for all their upper tier weapons. They start to look less like weapons and more like something you take to a Rave party instead. I don't want Luke Skywalker's lightsaber, I just want a real looking saber.

Karyuu · Oct 31, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Mineria: Compare GW with WoW. Which is more realistic to you?

It's not that GW is completely true to life. That's not what anyone is saying here. The point is that when it comes to environments, character models, and armors, most of GW's art has a higher level of realistic style than games like WoW and L2. A helmet can be completely wacky and unfunctional - but imagine such a helmet in a Pixar animated film and then imagine it again in an epic fantasy like LotR. There are differences in style, where the latter is going to seem a bit more lifelike.

The case here between GW and other games is similar. For example compare GW pets with the summonables posted in this thread - in my mind, there's no doubt that GW's graphics in this area are in a more realistic style.

lyra_song · Oct 31, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Well ornate and complicated armors and helmets and weapons DO exist irl, however....many of them fall within the realm of ceremonial usage, not frontline combat.

Mineria · Nov 01, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

The case here between GW and other games is similar. For example compare GW pets with the summonables posted in this thread - in my mind, there's no doubt that GW's graphics in this area are in a more realistic style.

arsie · Nov 01, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

As long as its not World of Shouldercraft

Mineria · Nov 01, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

All low end weapons in all games are pretty much similar, the same short sword is in WoW, L2 and GW. But once you get into the higher tier stuff, they are distinctly different.

There are a lot of L2 high end weapons that look as real as some GW weapons.
If you think about the OP's screenshot with the 2 red glowing duals... that glow is very hard to obtain on L2 retail.
Weapon stats can be enchanted up, and get a glow identification from +4 and up.
You can safely enchant up to +3
+4 Here you start to get a barely visible glow, plus the item gets a higher chance to break for every additional level.
At the max level +16 you get that full red glow. But chance to get there is very low.
With that I'm just trying to explain that the lightsaber glow is not something L2 weapons are born with.
Little site note:
If you don't use a bot to farm for you, crafting weapons will take a good amount of time. Got to grind the materials.
Plus you will need the recipe.
If you then successfully got your weapon crafted, you will be very careful with enchanting it.
Normally you would either farm millions of adenas to buy more weapons or farm materials and recipes for a year, just to have enough of the same weapon multiple times, to try getting one of them to +7 or higher.

Forgot to include: Or buy the in-game currency. An option that seems very popular in a lot of online games.

Rivix · Nov 01, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Yeah, I agree. They need to work on the graphics for weapons and armour. They have amazing art, but sometimes they fail to realize them. I think the Factions did the best job creating armour and weapons.

Vinraith · Nov 01, 2007, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Anime, and anime inspired art, blows.

Sleeper Service · Nov 01, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Anime, and anime inspired art, blows.

ill put that comment down to ignorance else ill shift it into stupidity.

Karyuu · Nov 01, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Or maybe personal preference, where it rightfully belonged from the start.

Lonesamurai · Nov 01, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

Funny thing is, a lot of the L2 armours, were reskins over one model...

They had whining about reskins long before GW:EN came out

Fril Estelin · Nov 01, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

To me (because there's a lot of subjectivity with liking or not one style or another), the second picture illustrates clearly the "unbalanceness" of some graphical styles: the blade is roughly the size of the character! It's like some comics where the size of the upper arm is bigger than the head (it's rarely the case in real life).

I can understand why people want the game to be a change from real-life, I can even understand that it's a matter of taste and so they don't need to justify themselves. But I would totally disagree to GW moving in this direction. No problem with some weapons or other items being like so that everyone is happy (sort of, because the more you give, the more people want!), but not changing the style so drastically!

Regarding the use of graphics power, I'd say that Anet has been VERY wise not to enter this arena, where better gamer come every 6 months. It's an arm's race, a never ending one, where graphics card company are doing incredible progress (but at a quite incredible price, you now have PCs where the graphics card costs more than motherboard+CPU+memory!). With the spread of GPUs and NG physical models, I'd say that GW2 will look a lot better than GW. But I hope that Anet will continue to be wise and not leave a huge part of the community with a difficult choice. Furthermore, they clearly have a style when you look at the art, I really hope they can get closer to it in Gw2 (chronomancers ftw!).

lyra_song · Nov 01, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

Or maybe personal preference, where it rightfully belonged from the start.

Well theres a big difference between stating your dislike/repulsion of something because of your personal opinion/taste/reasons/arguments vs downright insulting it.

One involves critical thinking and difference of taste, the other involves ignorance and hate.

agrios · Nov 01, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

GW has a better graphic engine, if compared to L2.

But I think L2 chars are bigger, having more polygons, thus, having more space more fancy textures.

I have to admit their armor and weapon designs rock. And many of GW gear (like male Ele and Sin armors, too many spikes..) $uck badly.

But when it comes to character customization (faces, body size, hair color, etc..) again GW wins.

As stated before, the main difference is that L2 has a "korean-anime"-like, cartoonish art and GW has a more western classic, realistic, fantasy style. That was a decision from the producer.

But the gameplay of GW is something that L2 and 90% of the titles of the market will never have.

Ive played L2 for quite a time, but it was only untill I know GW. Its like...L2 is just more pretty, but is grind based, and I dont like grind.